Comments on: Methadone Abuse Worse Than Abuse of Other Prescription Opiates http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/ News and Observations from the Fight Against Painkiller Addiction Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:36:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Deborah http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1286 Deborah Tue, 03 Jun 2008 22:15:10 +0000 http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1286 I took vicodin 6 a day for several years for back, neck, hip, knee ankle and shoulder problems stemming from a serious auto/ped accident. Then went through pain program at famous San Francisco facility, which at that juncture I was put on OXYCONTIN. Then I saw an addiction specialist and was subsequently given METHADONE. First of all, Oxycontin is by far more addictive with worse side-affects than Methadone. At first I didn't want to change but afterwards was glad because it was not only less expensive, it also is a completely different "horse" so to speak. The half life is greater than all the others and the withdrawl is much less. It doesn't wreck your liver like some painkillers do! Thus, unless you have personally experienced this med, don't judge without doing some background, and remember not all pharmacists have the "correct info." I've learned this personally. Like one other commentator remarked, you can suffer or not. I took vicodin 6 a day for several years for back, neck, hip, knee ankle and shoulder problems stemming from a serious auto/ped accident. Then went through pain program at famous San Francisco facility, which at that juncture I was put on OXYCONTIN. Then I saw an addiction specialist and was subsequently given METHADONE. First of all, Oxycontin is by far more addictive with worse side-affects than Methadone. At first I didn’t want to change but afterwards was glad because it was not only less expensive, it also is a completely different “horse” so to speak. The half life is greater than all the others and the withdrawl is much less. It doesn’t wreck your liver like some painkillers do!
Thus, unless you have personally experienced this med, don’t judge without doing some background, and remember not all pharmacists have the “correct info.” I’ve learned this personally. Like one other commentator remarked, you can suffer or not.

]]> By: Valeria http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1092 Valeria Tue, 13 May 2008 04:44:49 +0000 http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1092 Hi again, Emily. You're right that there are definite issues with every form of opiate withdrawal treatment, including Suboxone. Thanks for posting some of those stories here. I appreciate hearing about people's personal experiences because ultimately, statistics and studies only go so far. Different people react differently to different drugs, so it's extraordinarily important to listen when people share their stories. Thanks again, Emily. Hi again, Emily. You’re right that there are definite issues with every form of opiate withdrawal treatment, including Suboxone. Thanks for posting some of those stories here. I appreciate hearing about people’s personal experiences because ultimately, statistics and studies only go so far. Different people react differently to different drugs, so it’s extraordinarily important to listen when people share their stories. Thanks again, Emily.

]]> By: Emily http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1091 Emily Mon, 12 May 2008 21:44:10 +0000 http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1091 Valeria, You keep repeating that this is only for people who are dissatisfied with their methadone treatment, what does that have to do with you blatant methadone bashing. I understand some are unsatisfied with their methadone and if I were I'd probably look into other options as well. I'm all for whatever works, I've said it a million times before. What I don't understand is why you have to make statements, about Methadone being unsafe and toxic levels, and also withdrawals from Methadone, and how excruciating they are etc..It's quite obvious that you get some sort of incentive, as you are using scare tactics, to get others that are thinking about Methadone to go to Suboxone. You could easily help others who were unsatisfied with Methadone, in a way without bashing it the way you do, there is no "Misunderstanding" it is what it is. Anyways I just thought I'd post on how excruciating Suboxone withdrawals can also be, here are some stories I've found at steadyhealth.com I will ensure you they are real. and you can find them at the site. I copied and pasted these. **********FIRST STORY************ I was taking Vicodin for two years for my hands and got hookedso I stopped. So, I went on Suboxone 10 mg and was on that for a year. my last day of Suboxone I was dying, diarrhea, vomiting, chills, restless legs, back pain, no energy, so I took myself to a detox hospital for four days and then suffered the rest at home. I did not start feeling better for 27 days, what a hell I was in. **********ANOTHER STORY****************************** My doctor had me on Suboxone for 2 years and tried to take me off like your doctor did. I was originally on 12 mils and over a period of 3 weeks I tapered down to 2 mils due to having neck problems that require surgery. Then about 2 wks ago I was told by my doctor it was okay to stop taking Suboxone. I was okay for about one day and then had these horrible panic attacks. I felt pain all over my body and felt like there were spiders crawling under my skin on my legs. It was horrible. About 4 days into my detox I had a friend come and basically live with me because I couldn't function anymore. I had panic attacks at least 2 times a day and I mean these were the kind where you break out sweating and shaking. I called my doctor and went to see him and left in tears because he told me that it was all in my head and I would just have to deal with the withdrawls. I found out through researching the web that I should have never stopped taking Suboxone at the dose. I finally gave up and was told by my doctor to go back on Suboxone. Basically to take a quarter of a 2 mil pill. I feel better but I have to get off this drug. I am now going to go inpatient to a facility to do this. ****************Third Story*************** I have been on suboxone for 9 months and told my doctor i'm ready to come off . he rapidly weaned me off within 1 WEEK !!!!! i took ONLY 8 MG A DAY . it's been 7 days and i NEVER FELT THIS BAD IN MY INTIOR LIFE . I FEEL SO DEPRESSED , ANXIETY RIDDEN TO THE POINT I GO INTO PANIC ATTACKS . I CAN'T GET OUT OF BED / OR GO TO WORK . SUPPOSEDLY THIS IS UN HEARD OF "PER MY DOCTOR " . that is such BS BECAUSE ALL THE INPUT I'M READING I COULD BE LIKE THIS FOR ANOTHER 3 WEEKS . IT'S SO BAD THAT I BEGGED TO GO BACK ON THE SHIT UNTIL A LATER DATE . I WILL LOSE MY JOB IF THIS CONTINUES. MY THEORY IS I'M LITERALLY PUTTING MYSELF INTO ANOTHER DETOX ONCE MY DOCTORB TAKES ME OFF . I WILL NEVER DO THIS AT HOME AGAIN . CLONODINE PATCH, DOXIPIN ( FOR SLEEP ) OR NOT . I NEVER FELT THIS BAD KICKING OXYCOTIN PILLS. I'M A NORMAL SMART GIRL WITH A GREAT JOB WHICH THE SUBOXONE HAS ROBBED ME OFF . I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE . WHY THEY EVEN PUT US ON THIS CRAP IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BEYOND ME . WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS NEVER MIND KICKING ANOTHER DRUG. IT'S FUNNY TOO WHEN I CALLED THE DOCTOR WITH ALL THESE SYSTEMS HE TRIED SAYING THAT """"I HAVE PYCHIATRIC ISSUES AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBOXONE "" THAT IS CRAP I WAS FINE BEFORE I WENT ON THIS . NOW I HAVE ALL THESE PROBLEMS TRYING TO KICK IT . HE IS JUST TRYING TO PUSH ME OFF SO HE DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT . I KNOW MYSELF BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE I NEVER EVER FELT THIS BAD EVER . NEVER MIND I'M ON MY 7TH DAY AND I ALREADY LOST 4 LBS . I CANT EAT DRINK NOTHING . THIS IT LUTERCRIS. ALL I CAN SAY IS "THIS SHALL PASS " *********************************************************** There are plenty more stories are steadyhealth.com on withdrawals from suboxone, and also of Methadone. I am not saying that Methadone withdrawals are a walk in the park, but I am saying that Suboxone has it's Cons and downfalls as well. Withddrawing is not so easy. Valeria,
You keep repeating that this is only for people who are dissatisfied with their methadone treatment, what does that have to do with you blatant methadone bashing. I understand some are unsatisfied with their methadone and if I were I’d probably look into other options as well. I’m all for whatever works, I’ve said it a million times before. What I don’t understand is why you have to make statements, about Methadone being unsafe and toxic levels, and also withdrawals from Methadone, and how excruciating they are etc..It’s quite obvious that you get some sort of incentive, as you are using scare tactics, to get others that are thinking about Methadone to go to Suboxone. You could easily help others who were unsatisfied with Methadone, in a way without bashing it the way you do, there is no “Misunderstanding” it is what it is. Anyways I just thought I’d post on how excruciating Suboxone withdrawals can also be, here are some stories I’ve found at steadyhealth.com I will ensure you they are real. and you can find them at the site. I copied and pasted these.

**********FIRST STORY************
I was taking Vicodin for two years for my hands and got hookedso I stopped. So, I went on Suboxone 10 mg and was on that for a year. my last day of Suboxone I was dying, diarrhea, vomiting, chills, restless legs, back pain, no energy, so I took myself to a detox hospital for four days and then suffered the rest at home. I did not start feeling better for 27 days, what a hell I was in.

**********ANOTHER STORY******************************
My doctor had me on Suboxone for 2 years and tried to take me off like your doctor did. I was originally on 12 mils and over a period of 3 weeks I tapered down to 2 mils due to having neck problems that require surgery. Then about 2 wks ago I was told by my doctor it was okay to stop taking Suboxone. I was okay for about one day and then had these horrible panic attacks. I felt pain all over my body and felt like there were spiders crawling under my skin on my legs. It was horrible. About 4 days into my detox I had a friend come and basically live with me because I couldn’t function anymore. I had panic attacks at least 2 times a day and I mean these were the kind where you break out sweating and shaking. I called my doctor and went to see him and left in tears because he told me that it was all in my head and I would just have to deal with the withdrawls. I found out through researching the web that I should have never stopped taking Suboxone at the dose. I finally gave up and was told by my doctor to go back on Suboxone. Basically to take a quarter of a 2 mil pill. I feel better but I have to get off this drug. I am now going to go inpatient to a facility to do this.

****************Third Story***************
I have been on suboxone for 9 months and told my doctor i’m ready to come off . he rapidly weaned me off within 1 WEEK !!!!! i took ONLY 8 MG A DAY . it’s been 7 days and i NEVER FELT THIS BAD IN MY INTIOR LIFE . I FEEL SO DEPRESSED , ANXIETY RIDDEN TO THE POINT I GO INTO PANIC ATTACKS . I CAN’T GET OUT OF BED / OR GO TO WORK . SUPPOSEDLY THIS IS UN HEARD OF “PER MY DOCTOR ” . that is such BS BECAUSE ALL THE INPUT I’M READING I COULD BE LIKE THIS FOR ANOTHER 3 WEEKS . IT’S SO BAD THAT I BEGGED TO GO BACK ON THE SHIT UNTIL A LATER DATE . I WILL LOSE MY JOB IF THIS CONTINUES. MY THEORY IS I’M LITERALLY PUTTING MYSELF INTO ANOTHER DETOX ONCE MY DOCTORB TAKES ME OFF . I WILL NEVER DO THIS AT HOME AGAIN . CLONODINE PATCH, DOXIPIN ( FOR SLEEP ) OR NOT . I NEVER FELT THIS BAD KICKING OXYCOTIN PILLS. I’M A NORMAL SMART GIRL WITH A GREAT JOB WHICH THE SUBOXONE HAS ROBBED ME OFF . I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE . WHY THEY EVEN PUT US ON THIS CRAP IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BEYOND ME . WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS NEVER MIND KICKING ANOTHER DRUG. IT’S FUNNY TOO WHEN I CALLED THE DOCTOR WITH ALL THESE SYSTEMS HE TRIED SAYING THAT “”"”I HAVE PYCHIATRIC ISSUES AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBOXONE “” THAT IS CRAP I WAS FINE BEFORE I WENT ON THIS . NOW I HAVE ALL THESE PROBLEMS TRYING TO KICK IT . HE IS JUST TRYING TO PUSH ME OFF SO HE DOESN’T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT . I KNOW MYSELF BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE I NEVER EVER FELT THIS BAD EVER . NEVER MIND I’M ON MY 7TH DAY AND I ALREADY LOST 4 LBS . I CANT EAT DRINK NOTHING . THIS IT LUTERCRIS. ALL I CAN SAY IS “THIS SHALL PASS ”
***********************************************************
There are plenty more stories are steadyhealth.com on withdrawals from suboxone, and also of Methadone. I am not saying that Methadone withdrawals are a walk in the park, but I am saying that Suboxone has it’s Cons and downfalls as well. Withddrawing is not so easy.

]]> By: Valeria http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1089 Valeria Mon, 12 May 2008 20:29:25 +0000 http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1089 Thanks for your input, Chad. There has been long discussion and debate on this topic as you can see and I value your comments. Short-term detox is just one option, a good idea for some people while long-term maintenance works signficantly better for others. I certainly did not mean to imply that detox in any form is better than maintenance if maintenance is what you need. This post was for people who are dissatisfied with methadone--whether they take it for pain management or drug addiction--for whatever reason and are looking for a way off that doesn't mean returning to street drugs. I apologize for the miscommunication. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Thanks for your input, Chad. There has been long discussion and debate on this topic as you can see and I value your comments. Short-term detox is just one option, a good idea for some people while long-term maintenance works signficantly better for others. I certainly did not mean to imply that detox in any form is better than maintenance if maintenance is what you need. This post was for people who are dissatisfied with methadone–whether they take it for pain management or drug addiction–for whatever reason and are looking for a way off that doesn’t mean returning to street drugs. I apologize for the miscommunication. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

]]> By: Chad http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1085 Chad Mon, 12 May 2008 06:24:53 +0000 http://www.meditoxofpalmbeach.com/blog/methadone-abuse-worse-than-abuse-of-other-prescription-opiates/#comment-1085 Valeria I stumbled upon the Meditox website and I must say I am astonished at some of your statements and responses. The stigma against methadone is perpetuated by the media, politicians and even fellow healthcare providers who should know better. Buprenorphine is a great medication in treating opioid dependency, just as methadone is. Each medication has its advantages and strengths. Insinuating individuals who are on methadone for their treatment of opioid dependency should switch medications to the 'more effective buprenorphine' is innacurate and troublesome. Addiction is a chronic brain disease, subject to relapses. Methadone and buprenorphine are not cures, they are merely tools used in assisting people in their recovery process. Yet you suggest that it is methadone that truly becomes the opiate dependent individual's vice (a very unfortunate and inaccurate suggestion). It is the nature of opioid dependency itself (and its consequential affect on the brain and endorphin system) that makes long-term or indefinite agonist or partial agonist treatment the most effective strategy. Whether using bup or methadone, outcomes are better on maintenance treatment. The nature of the disease doesn't change with the medication- opiate addiction is opiate addiction. That's why your page's opening statement is disturbing: 'Rather than continue the cycle of methadone dosing, pain, withdrawal and possible overdose, it makes more sense to break your addiction to methadone completely. By switching to Suboxone, you can successfully detox off of other opiate drugs and slowly and safely break your opiate addiction completely before it gets the better of you.' This introductory statement gives the message that Suboxone is somehow a cure and that opiate addiction is not a chronic disease. The fact of the matter is approximately 75% of individuals who cease agonist or partial agonist medication, relapse to illicit opiate use within 6-12 months. Therefore, it's irresponsible as a treatment provider (such as yourself) to give the message that 'success' can only be achieved when an individual no longer has to take medication. Painting this picture will set many people up for failure- prompting people who may not be 'ready' to taper off treatment to exit medication-assisted care. And when relapse occurs, it often results in people internalizing their perceived failure and reinforcing the misconception that addiction is somehow a character flaw. Success should be viewed by what gains indiviuals make while ON maintenance treatment and not necessarily OFF of treatment. We do not use the same criteria of evaluating hypertension and diabetes- other chronic diseases. Why should bup/methadone be any different. So we'd all be better served by focusing on reinforcing the behavioral changes people attain while on treatment (both methadone and burpenorphine) rather then simply promoting suboxone as a cure. But then again, as I'm sure you and your company are well aware, promoting short-term detoxes is a sure-fire way to ensure repeat business. Valeria
I stumbled upon the Meditox website and I must say I am astonished at some of your statements and responses. The stigma against methadone is perpetuated by the media, politicians and even fellow healthcare providers who should know better. Buprenorphine is a great medication in treating opioid dependency, just as methadone is. Each medication has its advantages and strengths. Insinuating individuals who are on methadone for their treatment of opioid dependency should switch medications to the ‘more effective buprenorphine’ is innacurate and troublesome. Addiction is a chronic brain disease, subject to relapses. Methadone and buprenorphine are not cures, they are merely tools used in assisting people in their recovery process. Yet you suggest that it is methadone that truly becomes the opiate dependent individual’s vice (a very unfortunate and inaccurate suggestion). It is the nature of opioid dependency itself (and its consequential affect on the brain and endorphin system) that makes long-term or indefinite agonist or partial agonist treatment the most effective strategy. Whether using bup or methadone, outcomes are better on maintenance treatment. The nature of the disease doesn’t change with the medication- opiate addiction is opiate addiction.

That’s why your page’s opening statement is disturbing:

‘Rather than continue the cycle of methadone dosing, pain, withdrawal and possible overdose, it makes more sense to break your addiction to methadone completely. By switching to Suboxone, you can successfully detox off of other opiate drugs and slowly and safely break your opiate addiction completely before it gets the better of you.’

This introductory statement gives the message that Suboxone is somehow a cure and that opiate addiction is not a chronic disease. The fact of the matter is approximately 75% of individuals who cease agonist or partial agonist medication, relapse to illicit opiate use within 6-12 months. Therefore, it’s irresponsible as a treatment provider (such as yourself) to give the message that ’success’ can only be achieved when an individual no longer has to take medication. Painting this picture will set many people up for failure- prompting people who may not be ‘ready’ to taper off treatment to exit medication-assisted care. And when relapse occurs, it often results in people internalizing their perceived failure and reinforcing the misconception that addiction is somehow a character flaw. Success should be viewed by what gains indiviuals make while ON maintenance treatment and not necessarily OFF of treatment. We do not use the same criteria of evaluating hypertension and diabetes- other chronic diseases. Why should bup/methadone be any different. So we’d all be better served by focusing on reinforcing the behavioral changes people attain while on treatment (both methadone and burpenorphine) rather then simply promoting suboxone as a cure. But then again, as I’m sure you and your company are well aware, promoting short-term detoxes is a sure-fire way to ensure repeat business.

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